Hey friend, welcome to the Trend Report. Thanks for joining me today for another installment of our CEO Chat Series. Today I'm really excited to welcome Susan Pilato with Mantra Inspired Furniture. For those of you that don't know me, I'm Sid Meadows and I'm a business leader, coach and a consultant and a longtime student of the office furniture industry, and in this podcast we have powerful conversations with industry leaders and innovators and others that are making an impact in their business and our industry. You know my goal is simple to provide you with valuable insights, information and resources to help you grow and your business grow.

But before we dive into today's conversation, I really want to take a moment and share two reviews that we got recently. The first is from Paula, who left us a five-star rating and a review that says not just furniture trends, and I quote I love how conversations on furniture trends can have a whole different meaning and resonate in a way you never expect. It's like a different version of business class, but including a mindset check. Thank you, Paula, for that rating and review. We really appreciate you. And this one from C Ford.

Now I know that C Ford is a longtime listener of the show and, Chris, I really appreciate you, leaving us a review and a rating. He gave us a five-star rating and the review says excellent show with great insight. This show has a lot to offer Great guests with helpful insights into the industry, and Sid provides great interview skills, coaching for listeners and ideas on how the industry can improve for the future. In short, this podcast is well worth the time invested. Chris, thank you for leaving that review as well. We really appreciate you. As you guys know, ratings and reviews help our show get discovered by other listeners. So if you haven't done so yet, please head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review. And with all of that, no longer delaying, let's get into today's CEO chat with Susan.

Sid:

Susan, welcome to the show, and I want to start off with a question straight away who is Mantra?

Well, it's a team of pretty awesome people. We provide solid wood commercial furniture, which is unfortunately has been a dying craft for the last 20 years and we're trying to bring it back. So, yes, we do tables, but we also do desk, and that's where you really don't see a lot of solid wood desk anymore. But we're bringing that back and excited to do that, and we're doing it with a little bit of a twist because we are designers, so we're having a lot of fun with it. And we're doing it with a little bit of a twist because we are designers, so we're having a lot of fun with it. And we've got some fun things coming up for Neocon. So I won't give away too much, but we've got something that's pretty unique that I think might be interesting to a lot of designers and end users.

Oh, that's a great little tease there. I like that quite a bit. So, Susan, my first question is why solid wood? What was the draw to solid wood furniture? Because in our industry we hear a lot of things about sometimes the good, but also the bad about solid wood, and obviously as an industry we talk a lot about particle board and veneers and stuff like that. So why solid wood?

Great question, because I would not have known the answer to that when I started out in this career as a designer, because there was a lot of fear put into using wood right, you know, we don't want to take down the trees, blah, blah and I've learned so much and because I'm a designer, I want to share the knowledge that I've learned and the reason solid wood. To answer your question, my company we were, as I mentioned, we're designers. So we have another company that has a wonderful client that standardized on Solidwood furniture by Hardin Furniture years ago, and so I've seen firsthand how solid wood furniture last. This particular company has over 50 facilities. We've lost two solid wood desks in all their history of 25 years.

Yeah, now, the other furniture that they had at the very beginning they had a mix where they just had to order real quick and I won't mention the manufacturers, but they were MDF with veneer, long gone, didn't make it because of the moves and it just it would disintegrate after a time. So we experienced this firsthand and we help with the facilities team, with our own crew, and so we know how to move solid wood furniture. I've done it quite often and where you can just screw it back together, not a problem. Where with MDF, a particle board it. Just you can't do that.

Crumbles yeah.

Right crumbles. So about 2016, 2017, unfortunately, we started hearing that Hardin was in trouble. We knew these people and they were wonderful, still are wonderful, and Greg Hardin such a great man. But he reached out to us to let us know things weren't going well. A private equity firm got involved and unfortunately, they were wiped out.

We went into a panic because our client I mean, we have all these facilities. We don't want to lose that ability to do solid wood. And when we did start our research, we were shocked that no one, no one does solid wood desks no one. And we're like how can this be? And so we started digging into the research and I love to learn and it's really. It started when all of our manufacturing went overseas and things were done cheaper and less quality the fast furniture kind of idea. So we said, wow, we're in a pickle here. So we already had a relationship with two men and a gentleman and we were doing custom work. We went to them. We're like let's fire up the, the Amish workshop, see if we can get this done. And we did and the furniture is beautiful. And so then we're like well, wait a minute, we're designers. What if we do some?

you know things this creative brain starts working right like ideas.

I think we can create our own company here. So we did, and that started in 2018. So you know and what we realized. We really needed to educate people because, to your point, you're like solid wood. You know we're not supposed to use it. It's really actually a very healthy thing to use because when it's it's wood, it's true wood and it's holding carbon and this. You can use plywood as a substrate. That's still solid wood.

So, we're trying to teach that and, as you're responsible forest and we really have that in the US and all of our wood is American hardwood as you go through that cycle of all right, you're harvesting these trees, you're allowing for new growth. They are the ones that are sucking in that carbon. So, you want that turnover because as a tree grows older, kind of like us not as good at things you know, like pulling that carbon in I love how you tied us into that.

by the way, I do love that.

You got to have the Gen Z trees, right.

So I want to go back for a second and I started my career at an office furniture dealership in 1990. I'm not going to say it out loud, but we sold Hardin and you want to talk about beautiful furniture. Oh my gosh, it is absolutely gorgeous, stunning, and they had at the time my favorite executive chair and I still can see it today Like it was so beautiful back then and they were an amazing company that made absolutely beautiful product and I love how you worked with them and you took something bad that happened, very unfortunate. That happened but does happen to a lot of companies and you turned it into something very positive for you and to your customers and founded Mantra Inspired Furniture, where you specialize in solid wood. And I want to ask a follow-up question about responsible foresting. What does that actually mean? Can you describe that term for us? We don't hear that a lot in our industry.

Yeah, and that's why we're out there trying to talk about this. So what that means and I know that many people aren't in love with regulations the amount of regulations we have in this country but really we're very fortunate to have these regulations in our country because that's why we need that FSC certified, especially for wood that's coming from other countries, because they're not as responsible.

In our country, for one, we don't have like the Amazon or lumber right, it's really small businesses. You've got the landowners, you've got the harvesters, you've got the lumbermen, so you're servicing a lot of small business in the lumber industry, and you've got softwood and hardwood I speak to the hardwood side because that's what I know best and there are a lot of regulations because you know, we don't want to over-harvest or strip, but keeping in mind too, neither do these, the people that are in the business. They don't want to do anything that's going to harm their crop. So much like agriculture, what we call in our world is silviculture. So they're just getting better and better and better at understanding how to harvest wood appropriately so that the rest of the forest continues to grow, because it's just this continuous cycle.

Now there are also companies that are in our country that are taking the felled wood from development. Okay, so that's our worst offender to forests. It's not a lumberman, it's not our industry, it's where they're just wiping out areas. Well, what's happening is that wood is being reclaimed back into the system and you know, you make lumber out of it for homes, you can make it for people like us, for furniture so that we can use it. So there's more attention to that. So this is a good thing, right? This is where we're paying more attention, and that, to me, is what's considered responsible harvesting.

Okay, and I think it's important. I certainly had a lot of visuals, as you were describing that, and so responsible forestry I'm going to recap it is it's responsibly harvesting trees from a forest, not clear-cutting the entire land and harvesting all of the trees, because the idea is to promote regeneration and regrowth of trees so that we continue to have them. In your case, to harvest them in order to have to make the products that you make right. And so the opposite clear cutting is what the big boxes are doing to provide lumber and all other work surfaces and all other kinds of things.

Yeah. So in other countries there is clear cutting. That happens. It's very short sighted to do that because think about you do that and then what have you done? You've you're going to be waiting 150 years. So when it's done correctly, you just have this continual source. I'll tell you what's really interesting. So and this is how forest has a direct impact on design and what is being chosen. So white oak was the hot and still is the hot wood right Hot commodity in wood world. That was a cheaper wood. It's now more expensive. You see the prices are ticking up. Same with walnut. Okay, cherry, believe it or not, is at the bottom rung as expense. However, you're going to start seeing more cherry out there and I already say it was interesting. I saw some plastic laminate samples came out recently and they brought back all this cherry. So see, people, they're smart, they're seeing, they're watching the lumber prices because that is going to affect us. Cherry's beautiful. We have it in our line, the natural cherry.

I love that wood just the way forest, and what's more expensive and what's less expensive, where the supply and demand is Yep, so it's driving decisions, because so many decisions are based on price that's right.

Prices of things right. So I want to keep going forward and I really want to understand. Share with us how you got the name Mantra Inspired Furniture. So you make hardwoods, you're in Virginia, you're doing really good things. How'd you come up with the name?

So when you're doing something new, it's like, okay, what in the world? What are we going to call this thing? So my business partner and I were on our way to a meeting in New York. So that morning I'm getting ready and it just popped in my head what if we called it mantra, after my father's mantra that he gave me when I graduated from college? And so I brought it up to Donna on the plane. I'm like, hey, what do you think about Mantra? And she said I like it. She said what if you say Mantra inspired furniture? Because the furniture is being inspired by the Mantra.

Bingo, there's our name. I love how organically really good names get discovered right and how you come up with them. I think it's really really cool. And the two of you together after something that your dad left you. Tell us about that letter. Your dad wrote you a letter as you're graduating from college. Tell us about that letter.

He did, and so I still have that letter, of course, and he it's in cursive, yeah, which is a lost art.

There's younger ones that aren't listening. You probably don't know what cursive is so?

but he at that time he knew. I mean, since I was five years old, I'm like I'm going to have my own business one day. I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm going to have my own business. I just had you know, I had this little miniature briefcase I'd carry around and I'd spread papers on my death, because that's what business people do, right.

So anyway so dad knew, you know, that one day and he uh, and I'll tell you, he and I became very close. My mother passed away when I was 13. Brother and sister were out of the house, so it was just the two of us and he would bring me to like networking things. That he did. He was, he owned a car dealership with two other partners and he taught me how to look people in the eye and shake the hand and I was so nervous but he put me in those positions and I'm glad he did because it helped me to understand. You know what to do.

And so when he wrote me this letter I had decided at that time I was, I had worked for an architect and this is pretty soon after college worked for an architect and I knew that one day.

I knew I was going to an architect and this is pretty soon after college worked for an architect and I knew that one day I knew I was going to do something and needed to understand marketing and sales. I needed to understand that side of it. So I went to work for a dealership and that's when he sent me this letter and let me know how suited he felt like I was to go into marketing. And he said you, you know, I've kept this small piece of paper with me and was the first time I'd ever seen this. I've kept this with me as a reminder. Um, and he was a very principled man, I just adored my father and it was the eight mantras and um, like, do it now, say something nice to everyone you meet, enthusiasm, moderation, drive carefully, which kind of cracks me up, because he was a car dealer and organization and appearance, and I think I'm missing one of them keep on trying keep on trying.

Thank you, that one of the most important ones I have them up right here on the website, so I'm watching, yeah so, yeah, and the keep on trying is something that really stands out to me, because that's what you do with business, right? You know, and design, you just keep on, because sometimes it's not going to work, you know, and so you got to keep on trying. So that's where that came from.

So I love that. It's a legacy from your father, it's a note that he carried around to remind himself of these things and then he passes that on to you, knowing that your future is going to be involved in being an entrepreneur, being a business owner and a business leader. And I'm just going to recap the eight because I think they're very important, that you can use in business but also in life. The lines are definitely blurred there, so do it now. Be cheerful and optimistic, say something nice to everyone you meet. I could talk about that one all by myself. I could talk about that one. The next one is enthusiasm, organization and appearance, moderation, drive carefully and keep on trying. So what a great gift your dad left you.

Absolutely it was. And he lived long enough to see me, but he did not see the mantra business, but he saw the success that Donna and I had over the years and he saw our struggles, he saw our failures but he saw our successes and he the fact that I had this man believe in me so much. I just felt like I could do it, and I think that's an important message to all the fathers out there that have daughters. I am so grateful. Yes, you, let's raise my hand.

Yeah, when you have a daughter, as a father the mother's role is so important, obviously, but as a father, because we're going to be walking into these rooms with men having a strong father who believes in you and says you can do this, you can do this, go for it all. I can't even begin to tell you what that does for a young girl and the confidence and also to draw those firm boundaries as well, and the father really teaches that as well as the mother, but my father really gave me the confidence to draw that boundary for myself.

So men have an important and it could be a brother If you don't have a father, brother or husband. I have a great husband who is very supportive of everything that I do.

And choose your partners carefully. That's right. So, Susan, I'm curious and I want to keep moving forward. But why the Amish? You mentioned Amish and the Mennonites very briefly. So you saw the business opportunity, knew you wanted to do hardwoods, knew the resources for it and you went to the Mennonites and the Amish to make furniture. Why there?

I mean, who are the original craftsmen in America, right, other than the Native Americans? They truly were. But when you're talking about the United States and you think about, when you think about quality craftsmanship, that culture comes to mind pretty quickly, right? So we were very, very fortunate to have the relationship that we have and I got to tell you, you know, the first time that we went out there to meet with the workshops that are doing our work, I was a little nervous, not about meeting them, but making sure that I didn't do anything that might have been. You know, like you know we do anything that might have been. You know, like that.

You know we now I wore makeup, I do have draw my line there, but you know, I talked to Jonathan and James, who they have an iPhone, they have iPad, they have all that. The Amish workshops do not, and we, and certain ones, were a little more strict than others and it's kind of, as James explained it to me, it's like. It's like the Baptist, you know they like have you know there's a wide range of conservative to a little bit more liberal and so. 

But they were so welcoming and I wondered if it's something like here. We are women, I don't know. They were so gracious, so welcoming if I could walk into every room like that. And these were all men, but there were a lot of women that work in these workshops. It's like who can do the work? What makes sense here? Let's get together and not focus on oh, you're a woman, you're a man, so I've learned a lot.

And what's really interesting, really interesting too they're so far off the grid. You know, we hear a lot of noise. You get up in the morning, you switch on the news or you don't, but you know it's. It's hard to not be affected by it. They are not affected because they don't know anything like they're in their own world, they, they focus so much on quality. It's just part of their makeup, part of the culture. So you may have one group that really focuses on what we call plank up, where you take the lumber, you glue it up and it becomes a plank that goes to the next guy, the workshop that's planning it down into the size of surfaces or what have you, or panels that we need. Then it goes to another to assemble. They have their specialties, so you've got the finish. So it's not an all one big factory. We have the ability to use different ones for their specialty, for our design. So we're not honed in on. We only can do this.

You're not constrained by the capabilities of a factory, necessarily, exactly.

Or by the constraints of waiting for product to come in from other sources. So everything, like I said, it's all American made, so that's been quite a benefit.

So one of the things that I really appreciate about the story that you just shared, Susan, is the fact that there's a message and a lesson in there for all of us. You are being respectful of their culture, you are being respectful of who they are by researching, investigating, asking questions before you went in there, and I think that's really important. We could all learn a lot from, and the world might be a little bit better place if we would all learn to be respectful of other people's beliefs and cultures, even though they may be different than ours. So I applaud you for doing that and leading the way with that, because I think that's really, really important.

Well, thank you.

So, Susan, we talked about this in our pre-interview. Most of you know that we have a. I have a pre-interview with every guest just to chat about the show, what's going on, all that kind of good stuff. And when we chatted earlier, we talked about the importance of women in our industry and we talked a little bit about women in certain roles and you know those kinds of things, and I'd really like your thoughts of encouragement or thoughts about women in our industry and how women in our industry can move their careers forward. That's a really big question, I know that, but let's talk about that.

Yeah, I would love to, because I'd like to see more women leaders. We do have a lot of women in the industry, but we don't have enough of our women leaders, and I did not realize that when we created Montreux Inspired Furniture that we would be at such a minority of. There's only 3% of all manufacturers and commercial manufacturing that are either women-owned or women-led. That's got to be changed.

Shocking is what that is right. Yes, thank you, 3% of businesses in our industry are women-owned or women-led. That's shocking. Yeah, yeah, and you're right, that needs to change.

It does need to change. And I don't say this because I think women are so much better. We add so much I mean the balance and also we're very monochromatic, and that's part of the issue too. I mean, I interviewed a young man last week and again yesterday, and to protect him, he is just wonderful, so smart he is. He's just wonderful, so smart, and because of what he looks like, he could have easily been overlooked, because and I know this because I've been in the industry you know a hot minute. And what a loss. Well, it's our gain, I hope. I mean, we are just what the secret out of the bag. We did send him an offer letter last night, so I'm hoping, I'm hoping he will join us.

But I think of how businesses lose out on not incorporating more women leaders, more people of color, and here's why I feel this way you're really not taking advantage of the experiences, the life experiences, the creativity, the line of thought, to balance it all out, to create a better company, because you will, in the end you will have a better company and it's been proven over and over the companies that do that they rise right on up to the top.

So you can tell, I feel very passionate about this, but I've seen it firsthand. I have seen it firsthand and so often I've seen women's ideas shut down. Shut down or ignored because, quite frankly, we're still that other coming into the room that the foundation has been meant for so long that it's like there is a board that I'm on. Years ago, when I first got on there, I could feel these guys looking at me like are you going to bring me my name tag or my coffee? You know like why are you here? And then you know I'm entering the boardroom. They're like huh, she's coming in here with us Now she's coming to sit at the table.

Yeah, she's coming to sit at the table.

And I stayed quiet for a while and now I speak more often about things, and that's the other thing is on all sides we need to be able to speak and feel comfortable speaking, and also there's a responsibility in hearing what that person has to say.

A hundred percent.

And that goes for all of us, not just one gender, not one color, and the more that we hear, that's where creativity happens. I mean, I can tell you, I see it when we're all, when our team is like churning out some idea, it's so much fun. But if you close your idea off or you close your mind off, I'm sorry. If you close your mind off, that's where the ideas then are just bouncing off and going to oblivion, because you lose out in the long run.

So lots of thoughts there. Thank you for sharing all that. I think there's a couple of things that stick out to me. The first is well, you talked about diversity, and I am a huge proponent of what you described as bringing diverse people with diverse ethnicity, backgrounds, education, job titles, job functions around the table to have ideas, to share ideas, because some of the best ideas come from not the people that sit at the top, but the people that are actually in the factory working or selling your product day to day. I mean so, embrace that in order to fuel the growth of your business. I think that is so important. I've talked about that for a long time. Go ahead. I see you want to say something.

Well, it's like we just recently and we did this as a company we just read Hidden Potential by Adam Grant and one of the things he talked about was how Albert Einstein was a professor and how he was just. He was awful as a professor Okay, yeah, because his mind was so advanced. I mean like when he couldn't relate to these young freshmen sophomores coming into college and they're listening to him like I have no idea what you're talking about because he forgot how to communicate. We grow as leaders. Do we really remember, or do we and not even remember?

But because so much is changing and so much is new when, say, like in a project assistant, what their day is like, does a CEO really have any idea? No, not really. And if you don't bring those people to the table, it's kind of like that disconnect between Albert Einstein and the students. He's going to make all these decisions without talking to the students to say, you know, he's going to continue to be a bad professor because he's not finding out how to teach. So how do you lead without talking to people's experiences and hearing them and embracing those ideas into your systems or your designs or whatever that is? So I mean this goes not just with our industry, it's any company.

It works anywhere. Correct, it works anywhere. It works for anybody. The other thing that I think I would say first off, let me somewhat thank you for giving me yet another book that I need to read, because I got a whole stack over here of unread books. But every time somebody mentions a book, I go get it. We will drop the information about Hidden Potential by Adam Grant, amazing author and speaker. We'll drop that in the show notes for everybody. So, yeah, I'll go probably order it today.

So thank you, Susan.

But the thing I wanted to add to it is I mean, I love the mission, I love the passion, but I'm going to talk to the men in the room. I love the passion, but I'm going to talk to the men in the room. It is our job to support this initiative. It is our job to lift up the women in our lives and the women in our businesses so that their voice can be heard. It is our job to give them that opportunity and I'm going to say that with a lot of passion is the husband of a very successful woman who has had many, many fights in her life to get to where she is today successful woman who has had many, many fights in her life to get to where she is today. And the dad of a young adult daughter who is about to embark on a journey of finding her place in the world and speaking up. And I believe it is our duty to help lift up the voices of the women and underserved in our industry, if I said that correctly.

Well, thank you so much, Sid. What I call that, what you just said, and what I call you, is an ally, and that's exactly what we need more allies in the room. And I thank you so much for saying that so passionately, because I can tell you, I mean, you really feel this. With everything that you are, you are the people that will get us in that room. You help us become more holistic as a community, as organizations, and as passionately as you feel about the men and I couldn't agree with you more I'd like to say the same to white people with how we.

I'd like to say the same to white people with how we that belonging, helping others feel that we all belong and when I say others, I hate even saying that word, because there should not be an other, it should be just us. And the only way we're going to do that this DEI thing where it's all on the shoulders of our African-American brothers and sisters Are you kidding me? We're the ones that need to do this. We're the ones that need to do the work They've had to endure long enough. So, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for saying that, and I do consider you an ally the first time we met and I got off the phone or the Zoom call with you, it was like, oh yes, thank you.

But I have no agenda with it, right, and that's the thing about it. And I'm supporting the women in my life and the women in my business right, Because it's the right thing to do. But I will also say to the men out there just because you're supporting a woman, doesn't mean that it hurts you. It actually can help you. And I think that's why so many people I'm getting my soapboxes and sorry, but I think that's why so many people don't do things is because they think by supporting someone else it hurts them and their opportunities. Guys, the world would be such a better place if we all helped each other, right? If we all lifted each other up and helped each other grow.

Oh, my goodness, so true, and it would cure so many things that ail us as a country right now if we did that. And you know, and remembering that we're human, you know, it's just that seems to have been lost in so much of the rhetoric that you hear, and it's so important to remember that whole walking in someone else's shoes. You can't really do that truly, but you can at least try to imagine and at the very least ask, have a conversation, ask questions. It's not that hard.

So my favorite fictional character, my favorite I have a sweatshirt that says it and some of you may know that I'm talking about the famous or infamous Ted Lasso. He is my favorite fictional character. I love soccer. But be curious, not judgmental.

Yes.

Be curious, not judgmental. And, Susan, I love this conversation but I want to keep us moving forward because I think we could probably stay on this for a while. But I want to kind of add to it. As an industry, we struggle with bringing people with diverse backgrounds into our industry. There are very few minorities, whether they are African-American or American Indian, whatever that Asian, whatever it might be inside of our industry. Most of the people in our industry look like you and me. Right, that's right. How do we attract new and young people to this amazing industry? As a leader in the industry, what are your thoughts? How do we bring people that look differently than us into this really dynamic industry?

So I'll sum it up into one word and it's intention. You've got to be intentional If that's what you really want, and we did that with our company. And it's interesting when you put it out there in the, I'll just say the universe. It's amazing's interesting. When you put it out there in the, I'll just say the universe. It's amazing, like, how the universe will answer back to you and we've been given. It's not that we went out and said, okay, we're just going to go out and we're going to hire all african-americans, but it's like we know this needs to happen and opportunities presented themselves, naturally.

Right.

And we have. It's continuing to grow, and so I think intention is one. I had a meeting with the young women that are people of color in my company and I said this is a safe place. I've got some questions. Ask me questions as well, but talk to me. Talk to me about how.

Why did you become an interior designer? How did you even get that in your head and what came back to me? Some of the young ladies said that and it reminded me of what you hear from the Indian culture that are, you know, have immigrated, have our immigrants here, and they, their parents, want them to be doctors or lawyers. You know, we brought you over here to this country to be a doctor or lawyer. So some of the young ladies feel the same way and their culture that it's well. If you're going to go to college, why would you be an interior designer? Why wouldn't you be an architect? Why wouldn't you be a doctor? Why wouldn't you be a lawyer? Why are you just doing that? Well, interior design is a wonderful industry and it has a broad spectrum of areas that you can go in. So we need, as an industry, to get that out there in a way that all people see it as an industry that you can grow, that you can do wonderful things.

When I was at Virginia Tech, I had people constantly say that's a major. Interior design is a major, you know. So we got to help the interior designers and some of that's still happening, and especially with the school. If they're in a school of architecture, they're kind of it's almost like a caste system, or it is a caste system, or they're in a school of architecture. They're kind of it's almost like a caste system, or it is a caste system, or they're the lower where. You know, my nephew is an architect at hks, so he and I've had these discussions. But he really sees the value and in terms he's like they, that's their world every day. That's not my world. My world's over here. So you bring these two experiences together, you're going to get a better design. So elevating that oh, you're just an interior designer kind of nonsense. It's a great industry, so that's part of it right there and it's intentional. We've got to be more intentional about talking about it.

I think the same actually applies for the office furniture world as well, because I tell people all the time what do you do? I work at office furniture and they're like that's a thing. I'm like how do you think all these buildings got furnished? I mean, where do you think they just like magically, you know, bewitched. She just twits her nose and the building appeared with furniture. No, there's a whole industry out there doing amazing, creative things, you included, susan. I love what you guys are doing. You know you said something in our pre-interview. I have it written down and it's just the right way to wrap this up. We all have a story and I really appreciate you sharing your story today with me and with the listeners and giving us a glimpse inside of Mantra Inspired Furniture. I'm so excited to actually meet you in real life in June at Neocon, so tell us you're going to be on the seventh floor.

Right we are. We're going to be at 7046. 7046.

Okay, great.

Right there, close to the elevators and women's bathrooms.

And you teased us with something going to be really cool there. So we'll make sure that we put all that information in your website into, and your contact information into, the show notes for everybody to have. But, susan, thank you again so much for everything that you shared today and giving us a glimpse inside of your business, and I think another appropriate way to wrap up today's conversation is with a message from your dad, which is say something nice to everyone you meet today.

Outro:

Guys, thanks for joining me. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks. Everybody, go out there and make today great and have an amazing day. Take care everyone, thank you.