Intro:

Hey friend, I'm Sid Meadows and I'm a business leader and longtime student of the office furniture industry. And welcome to the Trend Report. Thanks for joining me today and I'm excited to welcome Marianne Hewitt, with Sales Star, to the show. Marianne and I were introduced to each other by our friend, Rex Miller. Some of you will remember Rex. He's been on the show three different times and I'm confident we're going to have a great conversation today that will help all of us become better at sales and driving revenue. As you know, my goal is simple provide you with valuable insights, information and resources to help you grow and your business grow. So let's dive into our conversation today.

Sid:

Marianne, how are you? Welcome to the Trend Report.

Maryanne: 

I'm great. Thank you, Sid. I'm just so honored to be here and thank you for having me on the show.

Sid: 

Well, I'm excited to have this conversation and learn a little bit, so let's just jump right in. Do you think that sales in our industry is truly relationship-driven?

Maryanne:  

I think people buy from people, so ultimately, yes.

Sid: 

I think it is truly relationship driven, so people buy from people, and I believe that too. But you know, when you think about relationship, define for me your thoughts about what is a relationship between a seller and a customer, or a seller and an influencer, if you will.

Maryanne:

That's a great question and that's a really important question to ponder, especially if you're a salesperson that has a number on your head, which we all do right.

Sid: 

Yes.

Maryanne: 

So you know, there are a lot of relationships that you have in your life and you can categorize them, and in a sales relationship, what's most important is that there's symbiosis there, that there is something that the person that you are talking with needs that you can provide, and so, at its basis, there has to be value. That's true for any relationship, and we could go into that, but this is specifically about sales, and so if your prospect has needs that you can't provide, then that's not a valuable relationship.

Sid: 

Well, and I think I consume a lot of content, a lot of podcasts, I listen to and read a lot of books and other things, and a lot of times when people talk about relationships, they're talking about giving and taking and remembering, especially as a salesperson, to not always take from the relationship but give back to that relationship and feed that relationship. If you will and honestly feed it more than you take from it. What does that mean to you in the world that you came from?

Maryanne: 

Well, you're exactly right, and I think the key here is symbiosis. You know, each of us have to be getting something out of the relationship for it to be valuable for both of us. And I think what you're pointing to, which we see a lot, is what's in it for me? Me, me, me, me, me, right, I'm going to show up, I'm going to show you me and who I am, and it's all about me. And I think what's important to shift is learning more about the person that you are hoping to sell to and find out what their needs are. I'll just point back to what we're saying earlier If you can't uncover their needs, how will you know if what you've brought is a solution that's even valuable to them? So there's give, but there's receiving as well, and I think you know a give-only relationship is not really a relationship. It will run out of steam. So there's that.

Sid:  

I think that also goes for a take only relationship, when all you do is take, take, take, take. And you know, that makes me think about people that call me all the time and they want something from me and they want it free, which is fine, right, but they call me and they want this, and they call me and they want that and they call me and they, but they never give to the relationship. So it makes it really hard and I honestly wonder if and not thinking of anybody specific, but you know, to me that's not really a true relationship, it's a one-sided relationship, it's more of a acquaintance than a true relationship.

Maryanne:  

Absolutely, and we, we kind of have a mantra at SalesStar that is probably not only ours, but the idea of give, give, ask. You know, give first and give wholeheartedly and give something of value before you ask for something. And I think the tendency I can tell you, as someone who feels like the clock is always nipping at my heels to get to the point, is something that is important. But I have to remember to slow down, like I'm trying to get something, but I need to remember that I need to give something, and and if you give first, there's more of a chance that the person that you're giving to would be willing to entertain what you're asking for and not feel, like you said, it's just a take, take, take.

Sid:  

Well, you said it in the beginning we all have numbers on our head, right, we all got numbers we've got to hit. 

In some cases, your compensation plan may be built around a bonus when you hit that number. 

Others, the more you sell, the more commission that you make right Entrepreneurs, the more you sell, the more you live right, the more you make money in your business. 

So, but there's always a number out there that we're trying to strive to to hit and, as hard as it is to understand, there's a real, it's a proven philosophy, if you will, that you need to slow down in order to speed up, and slowing down means just understanding the situation you're in, the environment that you're in. It's also about understanding the client or the influencer, and when I say understand them, it's not just about what their job is or what their role is. It's about who they are Like. It's who they are and hopefully you're taking notes when you're learning this, so that you know that their birthday comes up on this date or that they're about to have their first grandchild or their first child, that you recognize that by sending them a card or sending them a video note or something, that you're really building that relationship with them, and it's far beyond what their specific job is, at least in my opinion.

Maryanne: 

Yeah, absolutely, and you're talking about activities that will nurture the relationship, and it's an important piece of the puzzle. To nurture the relationship, that's also a giving activity that you're talking about. You know, remembering someone is impactful, and that's the person to person human factor. I think the other thing to be cognizant of, maybe, is what is this relationship that you're having? Is this a friendship that maybe, every once in a while, there might be some business potential, or is this and it's not either? Or there's a spectrum, of course, but where is this relationship in that spectrum? 

I think at the heart of sales is what is your client's problems and challenges. So you need to understand that, and I must say that in my career I've missed that mark many times. I would say that's number one Learn what their challenges and their problems are. Learn what their challenges and their problems are Because, again, if what you have as a salesperson, if whatever product or service that you have, is not going to help solve the problem or the challenge, there's less value in it. In fact, it could even be detrimental.

Sid: 

Yeah, it could backfire on you. So I have a lot more questions about this and there's a couple of specific things I want to talk about today, but let's talk about you for a minute. So how did you get into the furniture business?

Maryanne: 

Oh, that's interesting. Well, I will just start by saying I've had a very long, 30-year career that has really been woven and threaded back and forth between design and sales and marketing, and when I moved to Texas 11 years ago, I was in the flooring business, had been working for a flooring contractor, and I went to work for a flooring manufacturer and a headhunter found me and had me consider possibly coming over to a furniture manufacturer, and it was never something that I thought I would do, but the more I heard about it and talked to the people there, I decided that it was probably a great opportunity. I'm so glad I did.

Sid:  

That's awesome. So started out in flooring, and Marianne just mentioned, we both live in Texas. She lives in Texas. Probably from where I live to where she is is about an hour. We met a few weeks ago for coffee in downtown Dallas and got to catch up with each other before we scheduled this recording. So we're both Texans, if you will, so flooring. And then somebody said, hey, come to the dark side and let's go sell furniture.

Maryanne:  

Well, it's a little bit more than that. I started my career as a designer. So I'm a licensed interior designer in Florida, I'm also now licensed in Texas and I started my career actually, you know, actually my first job out of college was a designer for a furniture dealer. 

Oh, a Herman Miller dealer so really that was my first time into the furniture world. Then I went and worked for HOK for several years, had a fantastic experience also wore me out, but did some beautiful projects that were really exciting. Then, after having a couple of kids and being ready to go back to work, I went to work for the flooring dealer and then furniture again.

Sid: 

Right.

Maryanne: 

And then fast forward, went back into design for a short while, and here I am.

Sid:  

Well you said woven in and out. So you really did just kind of describe that. So when you worked for a furniture manufacturer, what was your job, what was your role at the furniture manufacturer?

Maryanne:  

So when I was first hired I was a dealer business manager, which is essentially like the primary rep for all the verticals for the dealers in the area for that manufacturer. And then I was promoted to regional sales manager. So I was regional sales manager for Steelcase for about five years.

Sid: 

Okay, so you worked for a major brand, you worked for a major architectural firm, you started at a dealer and then you went to the other side of the industry, meaning flooring, back to a design firm. So tell us what? You obviously have a lot of vast experience in our industry, so tell us what you do today.

Maryanne: 

Today, I work with firm owners who are struggling with meeting their growth targets, and the company that I work for is called SalesStar. We're based out of New Zealand and I work for the very first franchise owner in the United States, frank Niekamp. And our purpose is to help firm owners architecture and design. Firm owners grow their business, and I've had my own firm actually as well. That's interwoven in there as well. 

And I made so many mistakes that I know now what those mistakes were. And it's a passion project for me to be able to help firms small firms, medium-sized firms navigate around sales and business development which, by the way, we're never taught in school. Ever, and help them not make those same mistakes and grow faster.

Sid: 

Okay, so you're taking all your years of experience and turned it into a coaching consulting business in partnership with someone and your focus is sales and business development specifically for small to mid-size A&D firms? Correct, okay.

Maryanne: 

Correct, and I also work on a team with a colleague whose focus is furniture dealers.

Sid:  

Okay.

Maryanne:  

And so we also collaborate. Sure, she sometimes handles my clients, I sometimes handle.

Sid:

Understood, okay, so this leads me to my question, and if you're a frequent listener to the show, you've heard me talk about this a lot, and so this is kind of the premise of actually even why Rex introduced us, because I asked, on a show with him, this very question, and so I'm going to ask it again. But I'm going to set it up just for a minute. Different sides of our coin. When we think about our industry, we have the pre-COVID and the post-COVID. Pre-covid, we were updating binders, we were calling on people, we could walk in the door without an appointment, we could go to the library, we could, you know, walk around and say hey to people, and then, post-covid, all that changed. And so, specifically as we think about A&D firms, that their A&D firms are pumped, some of them are working remotely. Some of those remote workers may not even be in the same state or city where the office is. They might be down in Florida and the office is here in Texas working remotely, right, in some cases, some that are in the office are in the office two to three days a week, and then, as the furniture people, I'm going to refer to us as the bad guys, right, as the bad guys.

We get told that you can have 15 minutes. I call it 15 minutes of fame and I've written an article about that. By the way, we'll link it down in the show notes. It was a couple of years ago, but it's about this 15 minutes and, by the way, there's a whole hour. But you're going to do virtual and remote presentations. So you're going to do virtual and remote presentations. So you're going to be in person presenting to people remote logging in or vice versa, right, you could be remote and you're going to share this hour with three other people. 

So each of you have got 15 minutes and I sit here and go. Well, how the heck do you do or say anything about your company or the products or, to your point earlier, the problems and challenges that our product solves in 15 minutes? So that's kind of the post world, right. And I've said, and the question I've asked many times is, in today's world, how do we call on the A&D community? How do we work with them? How do we build relationships with them? As you said in the beginning, we're a relationship driven business. How do we build relationships with people that we can only see 15 minutes twice a year through a screen and we got to bring lunch or breakfast or whatever.

Maryanne: 

Sure, and there's all sorts of constraints, and I think you know, on a high level, we're talking about compression of time, right, compression of resources, maybe even and there are so many things that came to mind when you were setting that up. One of those things is the world has changed. The world has changed and the way that we interact has to change as well, which means that we've got to maybe rethink our approach, and maybe we need to freshen up our approach that maybe is more effective, applicable to the way the world is today.

Sid:  

Okay, let's hold on to that, okay. So I I totally agree with you that the world has changed. The way we work has changed right. The way we drive sales has changed right. But I also believe, and I'll say very lovingly, that as a industry we're reluctant to change, we're reluctant to. I mean, I've had people tell me oh, the six by eight cubicles are coming back, sid. I'm like, okay, that's not really true. But I think at times we're reluctant to change or to at least embrace change, right. So what I wrote down when you said that is we have to change. So tactically, Maryanne, what are a couple of things that you could guide the sellers listening to this episode, of things they should change or need to change?

Maryanne: 

Well, before I go into that, I just want to push on what we're talking about here, and especially because furniture and design are both creative endeavors, and I would suggest to you that change is difficult for anyone. We all, as humans, are going to push back on change because it's uncharted, it's a fear of the unknown, but you have to also think about it. It's an opportunity to be creative. We've been given an amazing opportunity to rewrite how we do things, so I wanted to just double click on that.

Sid:  

No, I'm glad you did, because I think it's very, very important. This is an opportunity for us to create. It's an opportunity for us to be different, opportunity for us to stand out. It's an opportunity for us to lead our industry. If you will, individually, each of us have that opportunity to lead our industry to doing things differently. Individually, each of us have that opportunity to lead our industry to doing things differently. Perfect, thank you for doing that.

Maryanne:  

I agree and so I think, given that we have to back up and what we were talking, about earlier. 

We have to slow down and we have to think about what is it we're trying to achieve and maybe bring some clarity to these things. Who is it we're trying to talk to? Why is it we're trying to talk to? Why is it we need to talk to them? Are they even the right person that we need to be talking to? Is it even the right firm? 

So there are a lot of assumptions, I think, that as salespeople maybe are applied to us, or maybe we apply to ourselves, that maybe we should question to be sure that we really are getting to the right person. For what for? For that symbiotic relationship, so that that comes down to like I mean, our speak, it's target market, you know target client, and then you know let's think about what are other ways that we can create these relationships, because I would submit to you that in a 15 minute shared presentation, there's only so much relationship that you're gonna be able to achieve. I would even suggest that, if you I think about it this way a colleague of mine taught this to me and I just love this it's when you're trying to generate leads, which I would suggest presentations or lead generation activity there's three things you want to keep in mind visibility, credibility and profitability. And by profitability I'm not necessarily saying you know how much money you'll make, it's really what are you getting out of it? What's your return on your time?

So, if we think about that specific interaction, what is the return on your time that you're expecting? Are your expectations going to be met given the new constraints? And if they're not, what can you shift? So is it still worth it to do that? I would suggest probably it is, but maybe reorienting how we think about what we want to get out of that. What do we want to get out of that 15 minutes? We want to have credibility, want to build credibility. Well, you can probably do that in 15 minutes. You can start to build credibility. Visibility certainly get visibility with a lot of people, including three other people that are there to present right. And then profitability what is it you're trying to get out of it? And then, if you're not getting out of it, what you used to get out of it and I'll just say back in the old days, what other activities can you do where you can win back some of that return?

Sid:  

Okay. So I'm writing these out in steps right. So step one is question everything. Steps right. So step one is question everything. Get the clarity around the who, the why, is it the right firm before? 

Step two is the let's call it VCP visibility, credibility and profitability. And I did a little bit of that with you already. One of the first things that I asked you was to tell us about your journey, which established your credibility as an, if you will, an authority on this topic, and I even reiterated it to you, or reframed it back, that you worked for a major brand. You worked for a major architectural firm. You've owned your own architectural firm. 

So if there's anybody qualified to help answer this question or give us insights, as sellers, as to the best practices or ways to get in front of the design community, you're that person. You're one of those many people that could share their voice with us about how. So I love it. I love that you use visibility, credibility and profitability and you tie profitability not to money, because that's how we think about it, right? We're salespeople, we think about that gross profit and blah, blah, blah. Right, how many design hours we spend on drawing a product because we get charged for it, all that kind of good stuff, right, but what you talked about in profitability was your time investment. And because that does tie directly to the profitability right and is this really worth my investment of time, which ties directly to, is this the right firm for me to be calling on?

Maryanne: 

Is it the right firm? Is it the right platform? Right? I mean like all of those things.

Sid:  

So my next question would be is what would be step three?

Maryanne:  

So step three would be to consider all of the other lead generation activities that are available to you. I would imagine that you could probably list at least 20 lead generation activities. I mean, I could list probably five right off the top of my head. You know. Presentations, yes, absolutely. Organization meetings when is that person going to be? Look on their LinkedIn. Are you connected on LinkedIn? That's another way to generate leads and to connect with people. What are all those other areas where you can connect with that person? And, like we talked about earlier, twofold, what are the things that you can do to nurture that relationship and how can you create the opportunity to have a really enriching conversation with that person, to learn about them? Yep, again, it's not have the conversation to tell them all about you. Learn about them and what's important to them and what issues they're having that you can uniquely solve for, and that's what separates you from the pack.

Sid:

Okay, so you're a master at this, by the way, because you did this to me? Because the first time that we met at coffee, I was trying to eat brunch, breakfast, lunch, because it was like 11-ish and I had not eaten that day Marianne's peppering me with questions, which is really great, but what she was doing was learning about me, and she asked me some really, really great questions and, in fact, when we started today's, before we hit the record button, I'm like it's my turn to ask all the questions, which is great, honestly. But that's a great example of getting to know people, learning about people, right? So let's go back to the VCP I've named that an acronym for you, by the way Visibility. What does that mean and how can we and I'm going to keep because I'm a sales guy so how can we be visible? What are ways to be visible?

Maryanne: 

What would you define visibility as. 

Sid:  

Okay hold on. This is me asking the question.

Maryanne: 

Yeah, but I'm a coach.

Okay hold?

Okay, that makes two of us Okay. 

But, anyway, I will, I will, I will, I will bite. So I think there's a couple of different definitions to visibility. So you've established your credibility in your 15 minutes that you are, I like to say, student of the industry, expert in the industry, expert on healthcare, expert on education, expert on whatever right. Hopefully you've established that when you had your 15 minutes of fame. So now you got to be visible to them. And I do believe that connecting with people on platforms like LinkedIn are really important, but to me, that's only one part of it. That's a connecting. Hey, oh, we're connected on LinkedIn. Great.

What kind of content do you create on LinkedIn? How are you visible on LinkedIn? If your visibility on LinkedIn is to just scroll the news feed and like a post here, maybe comment a post here, you're hiding, you're not being visible, right, but you think by liking or commenting that you're being visible. You're really not, and I think there's some statistic like 80% of the people that are on that particular platform are inactive, do not create content. It's probably even more than that. Maybe it's even like 10 percent. Joshua B Lee was on the show last year. He's a LinkedIn trainer and he talked about this. We'll link that show down into the show notes about how the small percentage of people that are truly creators or post content on LinkedIn and I think that's a huge way to be visible right Is to post. 

But here's the tip Do not post about your product In our industry. When I scroll the newsfeed and I see Joe Smith and Amy Smith who I'm just making up names, guys but it's always product, product, product, product, product. Check out my new, cool new chair, look at this great new carpet. It's so much more than that. People are not scrolling to engage with your product. In my opinion, create real content. So that's number one, I think, be visibility. Another aspect of it and I'm actually kind of taking over, so I should probably stop that, coach.

Maryanne:  

No, no, you go right ahead.

Sid:  

I think my second aspect of visibility so visibility, to answer your question is about being in a place you can be discovered, where people can see you and see what you're doing. So you could be visible at an IIDA event, right? Don't hide in the back corner with all of your colleagues. Be out front where the designers are and mingle with the designers, not your colleagues or other sales reps or independent reps or whatever it might be. Go mingle with the designer. So I'm going to, before I keep going down my diatribe, because this is a show where I'm interviewing you and you're answering the questions. I think it's about being in places where you can be discovered and you can be seen.

Maryanne:  

Absolutely. So there's a lot for me to talk about, a lot of things that came in mind while you were saying that I want to jump back to talk about a lot of things that came in mind while you were saying that I want to jump back to LinkedIn for a moment. So I think, yes, you're exactly right, you need to be posting and there's a range. You know, the world is not just black and white, even though my glasses are black. So if you're posting about your product, I would I would argue that that's still visibility. So you're still creating visibility of your brand and who you are connected to that brand.

And it may be that designer needs laminate samples and oh yeah, on LinkedIn I saw that's the formica rep. I'm going to call them right. I wouldn't count on that for your number over your head, but it's visibility, right. Credibility is another thing you can achieve on LinkedIn and I would argue or suggest that creating that content that is more thought-provoking is not benefits and features. That is thought-provoking, maybe even around a subject of your target customer's typical problem.

Sid: 

So basically, what you're saying is start the conversation like, post something that is oh wow, right, and get people to engage in that conversation. Right, you want people to go ahead.

Maryanne:  

So interaction, absolutely. You're not going to get a meaningful conversation on LinkedIn. You will get people posting back and forth. Sometimes it can go sideways. You know it's going to go in a lot of different directions, but again, you're establishing visibility, you're establishing credibility and you are people that are going to engage in your thought provoking post. You want the people to engage, to be the people who you can solve the problems for. So that's why you want the topic to be about that common problem, because as they're scrolling, they're going to oh, they're going to see themselves in that oh, I have that problem, like I want to read this Right, and now you're connected to that. So I would say that's a credibility play.

Sid:  

So it also, in that scenario, gives you the opportunity. So yet the comment happens, you reply back. Somebody else comments, you reply back. That boosts the algorithm, right Well?

Maryanne: 

there's that too.

Sid: 

Shows your post to more people, but then it creates the next step opportunity which I think a lot of people miss is I'm just going to sound, but slide up into their DMs, go send that person a DM. Hey, I saw your post or I saw your comment. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comment. I'd love to set up a time where maybe we could chat more about this Boom. Now you're to the next step of actually starting to build that relationship with your ideal client, all because of a post.

I want to give you an example of a controversial post. So I have a friend. She is a podcaster. She lives out in Colorado, she has a lot of social media work. Name of her business is Rocky Mountain Marketing, where she helps small entrepreneurs with their marketing stuff, and so she posted on Facebook the other day and this some people may think it's clickbait. I thought it was exactly what we just described as a way to start a conversation. She says, because I screenshot it and send it to somebody. So I looked up the image. 

Long-form content like podcasts and YouTube are becoming irrelevant in the age of short form content. She's talking about TikTok and Instagram reels. Agree or disagree, talk about a comment section full of opinions right Now. I didn't ask her why she did this, but I can tell you what. I believe. Why she did this was to create content for her business, to create content where she could share on a podcast or maybe identify a podcast guest to bring on. But that is, if you are a creator, a content creator. This comment, this post very controversial, right, about the type of content that we create. So that's just an example of that. So let's keep being tactical. I appreciate the tactical part of this right. So we talked about LinkedIn, but what's another visibility step that somebody could do?

Maryanne:  

Okay, and before we move on, I also just want to tie a ribbon on that and to say what a strategy she. If that is what she was after, then I will. I mean, I can imagine and probably could guarantee you that she has a strategy and she's thought that out. She was not sitting there in her PJs at eight o'clock with her coffee and go oh, I think I'll just toss this out there. She has a strategy of what she's trying to achieve. She knows if she's trying to achieve content or visibility or credibility or all the above, and she has curated her post to do what it is she wants her to do. So I don't want to leave that subject without acknowledging that having a strategy and a thought out process behind, or a thought out outcome that you're after before you make a post, is really important.

Sid: 

So and we can go into that, no, right, but I appreciate you tying the bow on it. But in all practical purposes, what that post did was potentially lead the generation for her could be very much for me. Right, it created visibility because of who she is. It leaned into her credibility, right, but you just said something that I moved my steps around as I was writing my steps out. So our first step is question slash, clarity, right. Our second step is B, c, p visibility, credibility, profitability. Our third step is now strategy what's your strategy? And our fourth step is basically get out there, get out there, go generate lead generation is our fourth step. Sorry, action, yes, action.

We're creating a program, you and I, what we're doing right now, Right, right.

Maryanne:  

And I would suggest to you, if we want to take it to another creative endeavor. You will never see a Broadway production that doesn't have a script and a lot of rehearsal behind it before it goes to action. Right, that's what came to me when I said action.

Sid: 

Okay, so you're going to give me another tactical visibility thing that somebody could do.

Maryanne: 

Oh my gosh Visibility. So presenting, maybe not in a design firm, but maybe at an event.

Sid: 

Raise your hand and say I want to be a speaker.

Maryanne:  

Maybe be a speaker, maybe sponsor the IIDA National Convention I guess that would be Neocon and become a speaker, become a feature speaker, get in front of your target audience and then find where they are and then find ways to show up and be visible. Industry events that's a visibility, obviously, and to your point, zid, there are ranges of visibility. I mean going there and sitting at the table with nine others and having a really good, thorough conversation certainly could be value. Might not be as valuable as if you get out and work the room, but again, think through what is it you're trying to get out of it?

Sid:  

So there's a couple of things that come to mind for me. Step out of your comfort zone and host a panel discussion that can be in person or virtual, or maybe it's both right and bring in three designers, if you will, experts in their particular area of design, and have a discussion about XYZ topic. Another example, like Danica Leaks was on my podcast last year and Danica is amazing and she talked about things she does as a rep. And one of the things Danica does we'll be sure to link that one down in the show notes too she does yoga for designers in her showroom. Guess what? She didn't talk about furniture. She does yoga, right, but they see all the furniture and they but more importantly, they remember Danica. That's visibility that they remember her To your point

Earlier I'm scrolling through the feed and I realized I need laminate samples and I just saw the Formica person post or something. That's another example. So Danica cheers to you for what you're doing and a lot of people have been doing things like that. There's just so many ways for you to be visible that, honestly, the cost of entry is so small.

Maryanne:  

Yeah, and you're touching on something else that's important. There are so many ways and I would say an industry standard for a salesperson you really need to be doing seven to eight lead generation activities at one time seven or eight, we can probably list 20, plus if we really put our head to it Right. So which ones? And so that's where strategy and return on your time become important to be clear about, because I don't know about you, but time is not infinite for me, and if I can get more bang for my buck, I'm going to go that way, but I have to know what's going to give me the most bang for my buck, and that's going to be different for different people.

Sid: 

And to that point it's important to do the things that just feel good to you. If it feels bad to you and you sit down at your computer and you try to record a video to post on Instagram and that just feels bad to you, then don't do it.

Maryanne: 

Do what feels good.

Sid:  

However, you're not going to learn how to do something new until you start doing it. I remember the first time for those of you watching on YouTube and holding my phone I remember the first time somebody said, Sid, you got to put a video out on LinkedIn. I'm like a face video, this old face and all this gray hair video, and they're like yep. And so I stood like this, the phone up high above me, I was standing in front of my door, I had my hand propped against my door, so we quit shaking and I created a video and I was in a t-shirt and I was just like. I got to do this. I posted on LinkedIn. It actually did really well. You could go like five years back and probably find it. Two days later, I got a package in the mail and the package in the mail was a clamp mount phone holder so that I could position the phone in a way that I wasn't way up here like way up high.

But I started it and then I did it for a long time and I honestly I it became a habit, Like I called them success soundbites, and they were 30 seconds or 45, less than a minute, some kind of soundbite about something sometimes controversial, and I put I say controversial things here not to upset anybody, but to create thought.

 

I say something controversial. What I hope, my hope is, is that, whether you agree with me or disagree with me, that you think about it and you think about what I said, how it might help your business or your people in one way or another. Right, but it became a habit and so I would do it all the time and I got tons of feedback on them and then I learned how to batch record them and again, that was a lot of visibility. It was also establishing credibility and things of that nature. Then I got out of the habit of doing them and I have not posted a video and I couldn't tell you how long. It's really sad because I got out of the habit. Those of you that follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram know that I used to be really active with video and I have stopped that habit.

Maryanne:  

Well, Sid, two things that come to mind when you talk about that that I think are important to remember, especially in sales, is people can see right through you if you're not authentic. So you have to bring your own self, bring your own passion, bring your own voice to whatever you're doing. And I would suggest to you there are formulas for a lot of things in sales, but use it like a recipe. I mean, my mother-in-law amazing she can put together food but she can't tell you what she did afterwards. She sort of has a guideline, but she makes it hers. So I'm using as an analogy use the formulas, because they're proven and they'll bring you results, but you have to make them your own. The other thing is remember that you have to be a learner. We all start as a learner and if you can't start as a learner, you're going to get into perfection mode, where you get stuck and you'll never do anything because it won't be perfect the first time. So analysis, paralysis is another one, right?

Sid: 

Yep Done is better than perfect. People Absolutely Do it. I mean yep, do it.

Maryanne: 

I was just going to say whenever I do a presentation, I always record myself. I always go back In our organization, SalesStar. You know we are coaches, but we're also coach each other and we are learners. We're always curious and we have something that I'll offer to you all After every engagement, coaching session, presentation, whatever it's WLC, which back at Steelcase meant Work-Life Center, but here it means when, learn change and after we have done something, we get together as a team and we go through win, learn, change. What were the wins? What were the things that went swimmingly well? What were the things that you learned that you probably want to shift, or you learned something you didn't know through the experience? What are the things you're going to change next time? What are the things you're going to change next time.

Sid:  

So I have a very similar philosophy. The listeners that have listened for a while know this. I don't believe in anything as such as failure. To me, failure doesn't exist. You either get the outcome that you wanted or the lesson that you needed, and what's important about this is that you understand the lesson.

So, in the same exact scenario, almost exactly the same thing, I basically say you have to ask it's like a little quadrant, right. You have to ask yourself what went right? Because something went right. Everything didn't go bad. If you didn't get the outcome you wanted, it doesn't mean that everything went bad. But they start out with the first quadrant what went right? Second quadrant what went wrong? Because if you didn't get the outcome, something didn't go right. So let's what went wrong here. The third thing is probably one of the most important, which is what did I learn from this process? What am I taking away from this process? And the fourth one is I say to people put your big boy pants or big girl pants on and brush off and say what am I going to do differently the next time? Just because you didn't get the result that you wanted means that you should stop. It actually means you learn from it and you keep going. So we have very much a very similar mantra around that.

Maryanne:  

Absolutely, absolutely, and we talked about this at our coffee, and it circles back to what we were talking about in the beginning here. Yes, the pandemic was a huge change that accelerated change, probably faster than we were ready for. The change is constant and if you're not changing with things, you're going to become stagnant. You probably won't. Your success will level out, if not start to plummet. But I would also argue that in the industry that we're in, which is a creative industry, we need to always be asking how can we do it differently, how can we do it better, how can we do it to have an even better outcome for me and for everybody that's involved, and pushing ourselves to be a learner and always be pushing the envelope to try something new. And I would submit to you that you cannot be afraid of failure if you want to be creative.

Sid: 

Correct. If you want to succeed, you can't be afraid of it at all. So I am a huge consumer of content. I mentioned that earlier. I'm a huge learner. I'm an active learner, right, and I find a lot of people that, oh, I'm not going to listen to podcasts. Oh, I'm not going to read a book, I don't have time to do that. Oh, i'm't afford to hire a coach, right. So what would you say are your top three things? That you would say that everybody listening to invest in yourself do these three things. What would they do?

Maryanne:  

First of all, be clear about what is your vehicle, because I would suggest to you that maybe not everybody's a reader. I love to read, I love the quiet time. I read all kinds of things, and mostly things that will teach me something. I love aha moments, but that's my vehicle. I love that Somebody else is just like does not resonate with them at all. Maybe it's watching videos, maybe it's learning on YouTube, maybe it's getting out and fiddling with something. So I would say first you know, be clear about what resonates with you and be okay with that, you know if you don't read three books a week, then don't worry about it, like, but what do you do? 

And to your point, Sid, we can sit around and we can look for all the ways that we can't do something. We can look for all the roadblocks, and their roadblocks are there. Nobody has, you know, nobody's scot-free here. Nobody has like a clear path to do anything right. So there's always going to be challenges. They're there for a reason, by the way. So, yes, I can't do this, I don't have the money for this, but I can do this, yep.

Sid: 

An example of that might be I can't afford one-on-one coaching, but I can afford group coaching. As an example, yeah, exactly. So if you had to give people two or three like tactical things like, hey, invest in yourself, do this. What would you say? Your first thing was figure out what's your vehicle Like, what's the vehicle that you want, how you want to consume comments, so what?

Maryanne:  

would be the other two things you would tell me. You know I'm probably going to be very generic and less tactical around this, but I would say number one is know yourself. You know thyself Like. Who are you? What makes you tick, what makes you just get really happy, what feeds you energy. Right, you got to know that you know. The second thing would be what is your why? And that changes through life. We all go through different seasons in our life, different perspectives in our life, and so what is the why behind what it is that you're going to do? Because if it's not a strong why, you won't stick to it.

Sid: 

For those of you who are not familiar with that, I would highly encourage you to read Simon Sinek's book, or listen to Simon Sinek's book. Start With why. It describes the why in just it's his first book. It's really the book that catapulted him to the stardom that he has today. So, but great, great points. So I will be tactical, just because that's who I am. 

Before NeoCon, I was feeling a little stress, a lot, a little anxiety. I felt like I didn't have much me time. So, coming back from NeoCon, I said I'm going to take back my mornings because I'm an early bird. I mean I'm up at 5 to 5.30 every day, but my day would start at 6.30. I'm like sitting in my office six, sometimes responding to emails, and then I would start taking calls at seven, sometimes even before, because half of our team is in Europe, right, and a lot of our suppliers are in Europe. So I start taking calls early and then, all of a sudden, I mean I was dressed by six o'clock, right, and all of a sudden the day was gone and like where did my time go? So I sat on this initiative, this intention, if you will, of taking back my mornings. So I blocked off any availability in my calendar from seven to nine o'clock, with one exception on Thursdays. So I get up at 5.15 ish sometimes before, sometimes after, and between six o'clock and 6.05, I head out the door and put the walk button on my watch and I walk for three miles, which is right at an hour, and basically I'm just making loops in my neighborhood Kind of boring. It's not great scenery, but still I'm doing it right, I'm doing it. That's the one thing, and now it's become a habit, and so that's my content consumption time. So before I walk out the door, I open up my podcast app, I look at I have several things that I follow To your point. I know right now what I want to type of content I want to consume. 

I'm looking right now to consume leadership content, and there's lots of different reasons, but so I've been looking for podcasts about leadership and looking for content about customer experience is another topic that's really interesting to me. So, and I've now alternated, so every other day is podcast day and then the opposite days are book day. So I have audio books that I'm listening to that are somewhat on the same topics as well, and then, you know, I come back in. I have a recovery just a smaller recovery drink a protein shake, right, I sit outside with the dogs and just rest and relax and then I go get dressed and start my day. And it's made a world difference in the quality of my life because I took back my time. And I think that's really what we're talking about is do what works for you when it works for me, but for me it was kind of a bigger thing. Really, what we're talking about is do what works for you when it works for me, but for me it was kind of a bigger thing. 

So the tactical things were I listened to podcasts and I listened to books while I'm exercising, which is helping to take care of my body, right, and I also find the mornings to be such a perfect time to think. It's just like when I'm sitting outside with the dogs. I'm just thinking like my mind's thinking oh, what? You know? I heard them say this on this podcast. I wonder if we implemented that, what would it be like? Or how would this help us get better or create a better customer experience or drive more revenue? I'm thinking about all those things and then, if I get one of those ahas, I just jot it down in my notes app on my phone.

Maryanne:

Yeah. Yeah. That is a beautiful thing, Sid, and it's so introspective of you to recognize that. You needed that time, recognize something was maybe off and figure out a way to bring that back in your life. I think there's a little bit of an idea of theory not theory, sorry. Another idea of boundary there, like creating boundary. Right, that's something that you did. You decided where that boundary was going to be before nine o'clock, right?

Sid: 

Yep so.

Maryanne:  

I did think of one, that's tactical, that's been like super impactful for me and I'll. This is more of a like I don't know in the weeds kind of a thing, but I'm a list maker.

If I have an idea, I put it in a list and then I figure out when I'm going to get it done. And a lot of time my lists are really really long and I like to try to do too much and I wear myself out and other people too. And I had a leader once suggest to me that maybe I could take some things off my list, and I thought she probably had three eyes. I couldn't understand what in the world she was talking about. I said I can't do that. Like you're asking me to choose between children, Like I don't know which one I would take off the list. So she shared with me something that I've shared with others and I'll share it with you today, and that is effort versus impact, and she actually drew it up on the marker board impact.

And she actually drew it up on the marker board two axes effort, low effort, high effort. And then the other axes was low impact, high impact. And I got so nerded out by that. I just took my whole planner, like all the activities and lists and things, and I plotted everything on that graph and it was eye-opening for me because it took the emotion out of it and it made it very clear what was worth my time, which we've already suggested is not infinite, right?

Sid:  

So I love that. So guys draw that L graph, put effort on the Y or the X, wherever you want to put it, and then put impact on the other one Right and then ask yourself that activity, is this activity high effort, low impact, or is it low effort, high impact? And then, ideally, in the L, where you want to be is in the upper right quadrant, right when you've got high impact and high effort Right, and that's ideally where you want to be.

Maryanne: 

I would actually suggest you want to be, like, close to the high impact line, but you want to be on the low side of the low effort side, that's right, we can visualize that in a lot of different ways.

Sid:  

So she and I are both using our hands, guys, to describe this. Sorry, you're listening, not watching that silliness. So here's what I'm going to say, that I learned today and I really appreciate, marianne, you coming on and answering this question because I want to know more and I know my listeners want to know more because it's like this anomaly out here of how do we call on, how do we work with the A&D community, because they are enormous influencers and decision makers inside of the world of furniture right, and a lot of things influencers and decision makers inside of the world of furniture right, and a lot of things. So I think my key takeaways are be different, stand out, be different, embrace your 15 minutes of fame and then start to be visible, be credible while being profitable with it. I just got to be out there and it's going to lead to I mean, we talked about so many different technical things you could do. It's going to lead to the next step of building that relationship. It's going to lead to I mean, we talked about so many different tactical things you could do it's going to lead to the next step of building that relationship. It's going to lead to that DM or that email where you can invite that designer or designers to coffee to get to know them more, maybe invite them out for drinks because of whatever right. 

So I think there's. We're hopefully for all of you listening. There were a lot of ideas for the. You're thinking now about what you could do differently to reach this important segment into our industry. So, marianne, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your insights and your expertise in this area. Any final last words you want to leave our listeners with today?

Maryanne:  

Be yourself, be authentic. I would say that you got to bring your authenticity to everything.

Sid: 

Because being somebody else is hard, hard, really hard, not just hard, but everybody sees right through it. Absolutely so. If our community would like to get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to do that?

Maryanne: 

So email is probably the best way to do that, and we can drop that in your show notes.

Sid: 

We've got a lot of stuff going in the show notes today, a lot of episodes and links to books and other things, including Marianne's email. We'll also put her LinkedIn profile down there, so if you do reach out to her, please let her know that you heard her here on the Trend Report. That's why you're reaching out. You got some value from her conversation, Maryanne. Thank you again for being here.

Outro:

For all of you listening to us today. Thanks for being part of this community and go out there and make today great, and we'll see you again in a couple of weeks. Take care everyone. Bye.