Coach Sid Meadows: Hey, friends, and welcome to the Trend Report podcast, where we have real conversations with real people about all things contract interiors. My name is Sid Meadows, and I'm your host. I'm a business strategist, certified professional coach, and a longtime student of the office furniture industry  — and I'm excited that you're joining us today. My hope is that you will gain some insights, inspiration, and motivation that will help you grow and your business grow. Let's dive in to today's conversation. 

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I'm glad you're joining us today! Welcome to Season #4. 

It's really hard to believe that we are starting out 2023 and season four of the Trend Report. We're going to spend the first couple of months in season four talking about the future — what does the future look like in all aspects of our contract interiors industry. We're going to kick it off today talking about the future of the office furniture dealer. I am really excited to welcome Jorge Anaya to the show today. Jorge, welcome! It's great to have you here.

Jorge Anaya: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me! 

Sid: We got connected through a mutual friend that we may or may not talk about later on down the road. But I’m very interested to hear what you guys are doing. Kick us off and tell us who you are, what you do, and the company that you work with…

Jorge: Yeah, definitely. So I’m Korean. I am a principal and CFO here at Henricksen and Company. I’ve been here about 4 ½ years, and I can take you through a little bit of my background. The company is based out of Chicago.

Sid: So Henricksen — and you guys are an Allsteel dealer, one of the largest in the country, with lots of acquisition that you've been doing over the last several years. Which is part of the reason I want to talk to you, because I think you guys have a clear vision of your future to really explore today about the future of the dealer. But let's dive into you just a little bit. 

And you've been there four-and-a-half years, and you're essentially the CFO. So tell us a little bit about you, and how did you get to Henricksen? What’s your history?

Jorge: Yeah, for sure. I'll try to make the long story short, but basically, after completing an MBA at the University of Iowa almost 20 years ago, I was fortunate enough to be recruited by an office furniture manufacturer, HMI Corporation. I started there in corporate finance, and that's really how I got into office furniture, not even knowing that there was an industry for this and not knowing then I was a numbers guy. 

I’m still a numbers guy, and that's how I got into the industry and have had a career here for 15 years, mostly in finance. I gravitated towards distribution and development, as well, and so it’s only logical that I would eventually end up at one of the best, largest units that they have. 

So that's kind of how that transition happened for me, in terms of how I've moved from a manufacturer to a dealer, which was great — I work with great people, it’s a great career with a great company. Now towards the dealer side of things where, we're kind of at the hip. We have an excellent relationship with them (the manufacturer), but now I work on the different side of the industry.

Sid: So, you said something that is very true… There are so many people that don't know that our industry exist. They I don't just magically think office furniture, it just appears in front of them one day, and they didn't realize that we're actually an industry of 1000s of companies, 1000s upon 1000s of people. (Compare it to the airline industry, we're really, really small…) 

I will add — this attraction of new people into our industry is one of the biggest challenges that our industry has as a whole right now. What would you say is one of the best practices that collectively as an industry we could do to spread the word about our industry? To help attract new talent into our industry?

Jorge: Yeah, I think it's a lot of things, but your podcast is an example of a channel to spread the word and shed light on everything that the industry is about. When you're talking about the different roles that different people that work in the industry, you host everyone from installers to finance folks, everything in between the signers, reps, account executives... 

So I think one of the things for me, as I've been in the industry, and the staying power of the industry has been the people, the relationships built, that connections that we all have. We’ve got this joke that once you get in, you know, we got to joke about well, you can't really get out. So you're in and you're in for life, which has proven to be the true, but it's also meant learning diversity of the things that I've been exposed to and I've been involved with. I've taken the opportunity to learn about them. 

So you know, it's not it's not one thing that makes this industry right for you — it's a lot of things, and there's a lot of room there to move around.

Sid: Yeah, I agree with you, I think that's one thing that people don't understand is all the different diverse job functions that exist in our industry, whether it's finance, manufacturing, sales, design — you name it, it exists here, and that’s such great opportunity. 

You kind exhibited that you grow in the industry, when you started at finance at a manufacturer. Now 15 years later, you're a principal at one of the largest distributors in the country, and it just goes to show the opportunity that exists inside of our industry.

Jorge: That's exactly right. Unbeknownst to me, I was taking steps towards where I'm at, starting in finance, but then moving into distribution, and then being involved in mergers and acquisitions. That turned out to be key for my development, for my future and skill set that I was gonna need to execute. The expertise to be able to execute at that level. 

Again, it was the exposure, it was the moving around, it was the learning as you go and growing as you go. And then eventually, you find another spot that you want to stay with, or at least make it your bread and butter — then stick to that.

Sid: So now you're the CFO here. And one of the things you had mentioned to me previously was that you're not a traditional CFO. So can you explain that a little bit? What does that mean? You're not a traditional because when I hear CFO, I think about a bean counter, and I'm gonna get yelled at because my hotel stay was $10 More than the expense policy allowed? All that kind of stuff. So tell me what a non traditional CFO means.

Jorge: Yeah. So, you know, I gotta answer carefully here, because I don't want to offend my my CFO colleagues here, but at the same time, I don't own a green visor. I don't fit the stereotype you mentioned, again, within finance. I've always gravitated towards distribution, deal-making, a little bit more on the operation side of things as well. 

I learned to understand and appreciate the front end of the business, when it makes it go, then understand who takes care of all that and who actually makes it happen. That all came from having exposure to real life experience in a dealership, in companies that do that for a living. So for me, I think I ended up in this job having the background of finance, but I didn't “grow up” in a finance-specific role. I went back to it, given the past.

Sid: Well, I think being able to be strategic, understanding what drives the business (which most people who listen to this podcast will know)  — the answer to that question is sales. Sales drives the business, customers drive the business, and then being able to have a vision for the future, and a vision of where the business will go. 

Henricksen started out as a small family distributor dealer in the Chicago area, and now you've grown into one of the largest, if not THE largest dealers in the country. What was the catalyst that made you guys say, “hey, we want to grow and we want to grow strategically and the way to do that is ___”? 

Via acquisition? because you've made multiple acquisitions in the last couple of years. So what was the catalyst for that growth decision in that direction?

Jorge: Yeah, I think back to your point about the company — we just celebrated our 60th year. We take care of that legacy, and we take care of the company that we are responsible for, because it is a mom-and-pop shop that grew and grew and grew. 

Only now, it is what it is. So, for us, when we talk about growth, it was not only leaving something better than we found it — but it was also thinking about how we position the company. We wanted to position our partners strategically for the future, so that long-term is a much better proposition for our clients, employees, and our manufacturing partners.

So, it wasn't one thing specifically, but I think we did a lot of soul searching, we did a lot of work internally during the pandemic, to make sure that we had our house in order, so to speak. So that coming out, we would be able to take advantage of opportunities that the market would provide, and close relationships that we have that eventually, as discussions happen, the one plus one equals three conversation happens. And then, that's where, we've landed with our growth. 

Sid: You might remember years ago, and I'm gonna say this is probably 10 years ago, there was this conversation that was bubbling around in our industry. And I think it was started by one of the other major brands about the concept of the “hub and spoke.” So a dealer would have one central “hub,” and then they would have “spokes” — these locations all across the United States. It lasted for maybe a couple of years and then kind of died away. 

Is that the strategy that you guys are using? What about other large dealers, because there are several dealers similar to you doing very similar things, right? Is just a different version of a hub and spoke mentality? Or is it completely different?

Jorge: I think for us it is a little bit different. We don't think about it as hub and spoke, we think about it as scale as it relates to the value proposition that our customers are demanding, requiring or needing. So I do think that that has changed — consolidation has happened in a lot of industries and a lot of other segments of the economy. So that's a trend that has happened, and I think it resonates at the end of the day with the consumer, or whoever is doing the procurement or the opportunity seeking process. 

It’s a little bit more of how do we scale up, so that the value proposition for a fortune 500 to an individual consumer or a small-medium sized outfit is attractive — the concept of getting the same feel, the same experience, same attention, wherever you go — we still hold that very, very much in our value system. 

Sid:  I think that's very much in alignment with the development of your brand. When we think about certain brands, and we'll just pick Starbucks or Chick fil A as an example. When you go to either one of those locations, you know exactly what you're gonna get. The feel is the same, the quality for the most part. Everybody has a bad day; the quality of your coffee is going to be off. Fort Worth, Texas is going to be the same quality of the Starbucks coffee is in Chicago, Illinois, 

That has everything to do with the brand that have put forth. You're doing the same thing by ensuring that your customers, design specifiers, and employees get at the Hendricksen location in Nashville, Tennessee and Washington DC and Chicago, Illinois are all the same experience across the board. Did I say that correctly?

Jorge: Yeah, that's exactly right. That is ultimately the end goal. It's a process, obviously, it's a journey. You talk about the Starbucks — I've been to Starbucks in Madrid, and I've been to a Starbucks in Paris. So no, we're not talking domestically, we're talking about wherever the customer is going or wherever they're needing to go to be able to do that. That is the concept, that the experience is the same. Same experience, same outcome — and it's a great one.

Sid:  think it's important to hear you used a word that I really like, which is “journey.” And I think it's important to understand that this is a journey because there's no end destination that says “hey, we're now a perfect organization.” We have to keep evolving. Everybody has to keep evolving and changing because the market around us is changing. So it's an evolution to continue to provide the best experience and the best service for our customers.

Jorge: Definitely. I come from a rapid, continuous improvement mentality. That's where I come from. That's what I cut my teeth with as I was coming up. So, it’s asking the question — how can we make it better? How can we do it better or faster, make it more valuable?

Sid: More cost effective and more profitable? Let's not forget those two things, because those are very important. 

So let's talk a little bit about our industry… We had an industry that existed prior to 2019 that operated one way. Then we had this event in 2020, that I'm not going to name, we had this event in 2020, that kind of stopped us in our tracks for a couple of years, and now we're emerging on the other side of it. There's a lot that has changed in our industry. With that, what do you feel are the three biggest challenges that are facing the dealer community today?

Jorge: That's a good question, Sid. I'll throw it back up, and then try to answer the question this way. For us, going into the event that will not be named and then coming out,  — what we learned so far is that the digital dexterity that we all thought was going to be “it”, it was going to be the thing. And the thought was if you didn't have it, then it was going to be very hard for you to compete. That’s true, but at the same time, what we learned was that relationships are still very much the foundation, the bedrock of what we do and how we do it. 

There are buying models still out there, and they cannot execute what they're trying to do without somebody like that dealer in between. So I think that is changing, the role is changing as we speak. I don't think the dealer is going away, I just think the value proposition is changing. I think technology has a lot to do with that. But I think the sooner the dealership understands how to make it a little bit easier for the customer to speed up the process, help with a decision making process  — I think figuring out how to do those things well is what they have to do in the future. 

How do you get ahead? How do you adapt? Yes, good questions — but at the same time, making sure that you are very close to what the customer is doing as well, because the customer is also adapting to this new reality, too. Some of my models are changing, some are still the same. But at the end of the day, we all want it to be easier, faster, more efficient. I think that's also true for our industry and what we do.

Sid: You bring up a couple of really good points. Some of the things that I heard were, we need to embrace technology and not walk away from it. Technology is changing everywhere we look.

I remember my very first job was in an office furniture dealer. I remember the day we got our first computer. And we were drawing on a grid black screen with green dots, we had one computer and one person that could do AutoCAD. IT technologies were and are constantly changing. And we have to learn to embrace it new technologies that come on to understand how they can help us be more efficient, can move your business and our industry forward. I think that's the first thing I heard. 

The second thing I heard is to speed up the process. Because our process from customer introduction to installation is not easy. It is extremely complicated, and if we can condense that, and make it more efficient, and faster, then everybody in the value proposition or in the value chain can make more money and be more profitable. 

And the third thing I heard is to be a partner — and that's not just with your customers. That's also with your brands in realizing that mistakes happen, problems unfortunately are rampant in our industry, and we have to come together as a partnership between manufacturer, dealer, interior design firm, and end user, in some cases to solve those problems. They're going to be solved the best if we truly partner together.

Jorge: Yeah, absolutely.

Sid: Thank you for that, by the way. When you think about dealerships moving forward, what do you believe that the future of the dealer is going to be like? Because I agree with you that the dealer is not going away. It will always be something that we need in our industry and in this the value chain. I do believe the role of the dealer is evolving. So how do you see it evolving in the future?

Jorge: Obviously, we have to start with technology and leveraging whatever is out there, as it relates to customer facing applications that make it easier, that keep you more informed and updated as to what's going on. But also, when you talk about visualization and tools of that nature, that's obviously something that we've all been playing around with, and trying to figure out how to best utilize those tools. 

So it's about sort of the convenience again. As technology evolves, I think that the dealer needs to step up a little bit of the expertise that I think is the key to the value proposition. At the end of the day, you know, people come to us for counsel, for opinions, or to basically tell them how to do something. “If you want to do this, this is what we recommend.” Or basically we may just say, “hey, I can do it all for you, you just got to tell me a few items here, and we can go from there.” 

So I think that level of involvement — whether it's training, whether it's development, whether it's raising the bar from a skill set, from a knowledge perspective, from just that craft perspective. Evolution and growth need to be constant, and it probably needs to be accelerated a little bit in terms of how much of an expert opinion is valued.

Sid: So the frequent listeners to the show probably know exactly what I'm about to say, because you just hit on something that I'm super passionate about, which is, I do believe all of us, the dealer, consultants, and coaches like me, manufacturers, we need to focus on being a student of our industry, and becoming industry experts, and not product experts. Because if your salespeople or your business development, people walk into me with a customer, they need to be able to understand that the brand name — forgive me to all the brands out there, you know I love you, but just go with me here — the brand name of the product you're selling is irrelevant. 

What's relevant is the solution that we provide to the customer based on the business problems that they have. If we don't understand the industry, and we're not an expert in our industry, if we don't understand things like biophilic design, or things like what it really means to be in a hybrid workplace, and we can’t educate and talk about those, then we're not doing the service our customers need to get the business that we need so much.

Jorge: That's exactly right. I mean, ultimately, when we talk about buying models, and we talk about how we consume products out there — that's a little bit of the differentiation between buying something online and seeing it in person. At the end of the day, some of us do actually still go to the store, and we might not buy it there, but we try it on there, you kind of look at it in real life, there's still the physical aspect of what we do, which is important. And I think that's where there's a difference between seeing something online in green reviews, going into a store touching it, and then asking that person there to tell you what it is, if there's something coming out next. “Tell me about the product, tell me about it, tell me about the industry.” 

So it's a different conversation — it depends on how you buy and how much work you put in on the expertise that somebody can share with you. That ultimately proves to bring brand loyalty or why you keep going back to the same things because your decision making to either begin that relationship with them was done in the best possible way with the best possible information and with the best possible experience.

Sid: Thank you for adding that, and I think it's spot on. The way you do that is by education, by learning and education. You do that by reading industry magazines, you do that by reading research articles, and following thought leaders that are sharing information about healthcare trends or trends in government or whatever it is so that you, as a owner, as a CFO, as a salesperson, as a designer, can be up to date. So that how you're going to talk to your customers about what's really happening inside our industry. 

We are ahead of the curve in leveraging technology. This is one of the things that you said — you've gone back to it a couple of times. So I have a question about that. What do you think that future is as it relates to artificial intelligence? Have you been asked that question before?

Jorge: I was wondering, somebody mentioned to me, chat GPT.

Sid: Have you tried it?

Jorge: Very briefly, but it's mind blowing. It is totally mind blowing. And so I think, as we chuckle and we talk about that… I mean it's definitely early, and not only our industry, but the whole spectrum of industries is trying to understand and trying to figure out how this fits. How do we make it something that is part of our lives going forward? What do we do with this, because when you first get it, and it's going on, it’s exciting — but at the same time, you get overwhelmed by it fairly quickly. 

So what does this mean right now? What is this going to do? That's definitely something that we're coming up here on strategic planning, time. And, you know, we're looking at topics and we're looking at sort of what we want to do for our 10 year and three year and one year horizons. 

One of one of the items that's on the agenda, because we need to start thinking about that. And we need to start talking about,  what technology is going to mean? What can we do or start doing in order to at least be relevant and be having some exploratory conversations or even engagements as to what can we do with this?

Sid: I want to go back for just a hot second and explain chat GPT. For those of you listening who don't know what it is — it is an AI system that you can go to open.ai, I believe are out there, I will find the link, and we'll put it in the show notes for you guys. You can click on it, and you can go try chat GPT, so it’s George Paul Thomas. You can literally tell it to do something, and it does it. So in the entrepreneur community and the coach community, this has kind of come up a lot, because I talked about it and went to their website. 

All my social media channels are full of chat GPT information, specifically. Tik Tok is like crazy with them. I told it what to do the other day, I said, “please write an expense policy for an office furniture manufacturer.” And I gave it some more parameters. In 15 seconds, I had an expense policy that I downloaded, copied into a document, read through it and went, “Okay, this needs to be changed. This needs to be changed to add this.” And within less than 30 minutes, I created an expense policy. 

I've had a friend that owns an e-commerce company, and he thrives on bots. He was telling me, he said, I usually write one blog a wee,k takes me about two to three hours in two hours. This was a couple of days ago, he said in two hours yesterday, I wrote five blogs, because it's so smart. I'm just fascinated by what it does. I'm very interested to see how this impacts our industry and how our industry does if they decide to use something like this, how they decide to use it.

Jorge: Yeah, that's it. I mean, we're right there with you. It's still a big question mark. And right now, I think, just like you, I'm having fun with it. But at some point, it's like, this is real stuff. It has real application in what we do professionally. Right? So I think it's worth not only just, “hey, just put it on the board, and we'll come back to it.” It's worth at least some dialogue, some discussion as to “what can we really do with this?”

Sid: So let's comment about this, and then we'll move on to the next topic. Another friend of mine said, he got an angry email from a customer, and so he went into chat GPT wrote some parameters about asking you to write a response to this email. He said it came up with the most beautiful response, and I would have never been able to write it. I think, what a great use of that technology, because we've all gotten those emails, somebody's yelling at us. So you could go copy it and ask it to write a positive response to this email.

Jorge: Yeah, I guess maybe someone would need help to write the emails, as well.

Sid: I would imagine you could ask it to write a meanie. Oh, my goodness. So I really appreciate the conversation we've had so far. I got one last topic I want to talk about for just a few minutes and that's customer experience. Amanda Schneider, I'm not sure if you know Amanda or not, but she was on episode 108. Amanda and I talked a lot about the industry and one of the things she said that was emerging pre-lockdown. That our industry is really now about relationships and creating the — I think the terminologies “the currency” in our industry is now relationships / customer experience. I 100% agree with her. So I'm really curious as you look into the future... 

What is it that you at Henricksen? What are you doing to create that customer experience that keeps the customer coming back?

Jorge: So we know Amanda, we love Amanda. We've worked with her, and we've done some recent things with her specifically on this topic. We actually do have a department, a team here, quite a changing one, and it's a Customer Experience team. The focus is both internal and external. So internal meaning, what is experienced for an employee? How does that feel, but also externally, as it relates to the customer? How do we bring value to what they're doing? How does our value proposition really hold water? 

The interesting thing about this unit, said, “if you ask them, they will tell you.” I mean, we're basically touching everything. One could say, “well, they're all over the place.” But yeah, but it's kind of disciplined chaos, if you will. And they exactly know what to touch, how to touch it, and then pull away and go to the next thing. 

So some things take more time than others, but at the end of the day, the Northstar is — if it doesn't help or do anything good for the client, then we need to think about it twice. Then it's probably not worth doing, or we're probably better off doing something else. As it relates to things as simple as tools that make things easier, e-signing, or concepts like fast office where you can assign things really quickly, you have something in front of you right away. So people can make a decision faster, just how technology interfaces, ultimately, between us in the client. I think that's the cross section for these folks, in terms of how do we bring value, not only from a process perspective, from an experience perspective, but also from a tool capability, a technological advance that can help the consumer do what they do?

Sid: Well, first off, let me congratulate you on having an entire department that's focused on customer experience, because it is really important. I also appreciate how you have divided it into two categories, which is also very important, into external and internal, because I think a lot of companies (and I'm generalizing) don't understand that your employees are also your customers in a different way. 

Employees need to have an amazing experience with you and your brand and your business just as much as the external customer does, because our people fuel our business. People fuel our business. 

Congratulations to you on having both of those. I really, really appreciate that definition of the North Star. A wonderful tip that I got out of that, and I hope the listeners did too, is if you're not focused on customer experience you need to be. If you don't have a department, or maybe you can't have a department, then look outside or to other resources to help you understand what customer experience is. 

For me, I'm reading a book right now that is all about this. It's called Unreasonable Hospitality. Have you heard that book? So it's this book, if you're watching on YouTube, I'm holding the book up. It's called Unreasonable Hospitality by Willie Girard, published by Simon Sinek’s publishing company. It's an amazing book that talks about the remarkable power of giving people more than they expect. 

Now, what's interesting about this book, Jorge, is it's all about the restaurant business. But every chapter in this book can be applied to our industry. And that's why I'm reading it, because I think it's so important that we, as an industry, truly understand what it means to create an unbelievable customer experience for our customers. This starts when they're on your website. It's not just talking to your people, this starts on social media, what kind of experience is the client or the prospect have with your business? Any place they can interact with you?

Jorge: You're going back full circle here. So, when you talk about growth, and when you talk about acquisition, when you talk about consistency in the experience — these are keys to making sure that integration takes place. Those processes that acquisitions need to have is there. So, you know, they have proven to be very, very helpful and critical and making sure that again, it's a journey, but that whole how do we adopt best practices? How do we become better all around? How do we adopt, you know, however, everybody does it best, and then do it across when it comes to growth. Without this group, it would have been really, really difficult to really talk about, you know, how do we acquire, how do we adopt best practices? How do we integrate, how do we do it quickly and So, you know, it kind of served its purpose. And that was a little bit of a thought process behind, it's not only going to do everything that we just talked about, but also when it comes to growth. I mean, having a group like that is, as that has been very, very essential for us. That's awesome.

Sid: So Jorge, I really appreciate you joining us today giving us a little bit of a glimpse inside indexing and what you guys are doing and sharing your thoughts about the future of the dealer in the industry. So I have one last question for you actually, two last questions. But the next question for you is, what tip or advice? Would you share with our dealer community about helping maneuver their way through what's going on in our industry right now, to get to the other side? What kind of tip would you give them about the future?

Jorge: Yeah, I appreciate that question. I feel I should be asking that question as well, to everybody out there. But, you know, again, I think for us, it has a lot to do with, I mean, it might sound basic, but for us, it has been all about, you know, making sure that that the culture is taking care of that you pay a lot of attention to that. And we have been doing that very intentionally, for a while now. So I think that's, you know, especially in times like these is critical, so don't over overlook that. And at the same time, you know, try to stay ahead a little bit of the consumer sort of trends and how clients are starting to change their, their buying habits, you know, so basically, how our clients evolved, are they adapting? And if so, what are we doing to adapt with them or ahead of them, and then technology comes in, you know, fairly quickly to that conversation. But I think that we all went through that event, and some things changed a lot, some things changed a little bit, and some things didn't change. Soon, I think, I think we need to kind of stay ahead of the things that did change, and, you know, facilitate, or at least be better at the things that didn't change, because I think ultimately, that's gonna, that's kind of that the constant is change. And we got to, we got to stay ahead of that

Sid: 100%. So I'm going to reframe what you just said, in two words, take care of your house. Because if you take care of your house, your people, your houses, your business, the people, your people will take care of your customers. That's number one. That's the first tip you get which I love that tip, right. 

And the second thing is stay ahead of the game by educating yourself and learning about not only trends in our industry, but buying habits from our customers, how markets are changing the evolution of the hybrid workplace, whatever it is, educate yourself, to draw back to what we talked about a few minutes ago. Take care of your house and educate yourself are the two great tips. Thank you for letting me put you on the spot for those, because I think those are fantastic.

Jorge: Yeah, no worries. And if you have any more for me, I'm glad to take them too.

Sid: So you know, that's not a really good question to ask a coach and a consultant and a business advisor, because we could spend the next hour to be giving you advice… but I will refrain for the benefit of all the listeners, I will refrain. But listen, hooray, again, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you being guest number one on season four of the Trend Report. So thanks again very much. If our community would like to get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to do that?

Jorge: I think email would be great. 

Sid: We will drop the email in the show notes, as well as your LinkedIn profile. And hey, if you if you do reach out to him, be sure let him know you heard him here on the Trend Report, and that's why you're reaching out. I’m wishing all of you Henricksen, an amazing 2023, and look forward to maybe connecting with you in real life at NeoCon.

Jorge: Yeah, for sure. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Really enjoyed the experience and appreciate your interest in Henricksen, and we'll see you soon.

Sid: Thank you again. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks. Thanks for joining me today on this episode of The Trend Report Podcast. I'm glad that you're here, and I hope that you got some amazing value out of today's conversation. We look forward to seeing you next week and go out there, and make today great!